Scott Schimmel (00:00)
saw your LinkedIn post about your son not going to a four-year school. think that's awesome.
Ken Davenport (00:06)
Yeah, it's been a journey. It's a journey of learning. And again, it always turns out to be more about you than it is about your kids. And I think that is just the constant reminder that you have a choice in how you react to the choices other people make.
you know, it's up to you to decide whether to, you know, be, keep a positive mindset and, ⁓ let people move forward the way they want to, or to try to resist and, you know, force them down a path that you think is best. So it's a very interesting, but it turns out that, you know, like a lot of things, oftentimes your kids know more about the world than maybe you do.
Scott Schimmel (01:01)
huh.
Yeah. Yep. No, he's, he's definitely on the right trend. But I, my son is going to go to Point Loma. He wants to study accounting, which is just so ironic because that's what I was supposed to do. And I've just been, I've just been hinting to him. like, do you, I was asking that in like, do you think there's going to be entry level staff accounting jobs in a year? Not to mention four years, four and a half years from now.
Ken Davenport (01:15)
Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (01:30)
And he's like, I don't know. like, well, that's definitely something to think about.
Ken Davenport (01:34)
Yeah, definitely something to think about. I
think a lot of these, you know, typical kind of entry level, you know, white collar jobs are going to be ⁓ definitely, you know, disrupted by AI and people are going to have to learn to adjust. And I think we may go back to more of a artisan, you know, trade economy where people are.
working with their hands and doing physical labor. And I think people will be much more satisfied with their lives if they do that.
Scott Schimmel (02:08)
Yeah. Well, okay. So we started the podcast already, Ken, that was it. And you're in the vector accelerator world and you were a key part of shaping this program from the get-go. So I want to say welcome and thank you for your contributions and shaping how we think about stuff. Cause as we were just talking about our sons there, it's the same thing for veterans. Like we have to be thoughtful about where the world is going. And I would love for you just to expand a little bit on what you just shared, like that the world
Ken Davenport (02:14)
All right. All right.
Scott Schimmel (02:37)
perhaps is going artisan. The world is perhaps going to a place of building things with our hands, real analog experiences. Like in light of that, what is your, what's your current advice for a veteran who might say, I don't know, I could do, I could do anything. I'm open. Like what's, what's your guidance if it's, if it's in that sort of context.
Ken Davenport (02:59)
Yeah, well, I think it's such an interesting question because, you know, I think a lot of veterans have this perception that they're going to go, you know, not all veterans are, you know, grunts and they're not all, you know, trigger pullers and stuff, and they don't all necessarily have physical jobs. But I think there's a perception that you're going to go from this kind of physical world where, you know, there are
you know, physical fitness standards and you you have this expectation that you're going to physically perform to this idea that they're going to go sit in an office someplace in front of a computer. And then, and that's what success looks like. That's what the future needs to be because I think everyone's bought into this idea that, you know, you need a six figure white collar job, you know, to, you know, move your career forward and to make the money you think you need to make and
And I do think that it's a false narrative because I think most of those jobs are not satisfying in any way once they get there. And I've had a lot of personal experience with veterans who've gotten out, who've gone that route. And six months, a year later, they're like, my God, I'm miserable. My wife is miserable. My family, like, I got to get out of this thing. I got to go do something else. And so that's why you see so many
Scott Schimmel (04:06)
You
Ken Davenport (04:25)
of the most visible veteran businesses are coffee roasting and ⁓ security training and a lot of stuff that people are kind of like, you're getting your hands dirty, you're kind of doing something physical, you're spending your time doing something with a meaningful outcome, with a tangible outcome, I should say. I feel like that's...
Probably more akin to the military experience. mean, as you know, I'm a civilian, but my experience with veterans has been that one of the most satisfying things of their job in the military was that, you know, they were responsible for something, they had a mission to accomplish, they got the job done. And there was some sense of satisfaction that, you know, that they weren't just some, like, know, ⁓ cog in some undefinable goal where they don't even know why they're doing what they're doing.
Scott Schimmel (05:07)
Mm-hmm.
Ken Davenport (05:20)
And it turns out that that's not super satisfying. And so I think the lesson for me, and it's the same lesson that I think I've learned just watching, as we were saying earlier, my son kind of take an alternative path, kind of a path that 10 years ago, I would have been like, no possible way, are you not going to college? Right? And now I'm looking at the world thinking like, he's probably better off.
First of all, he's not going to end up with a lot of debt. And second of all, he's not going to learn a bunch of stuff that probably isn't very useful. you know, and he'll, you know, he's got his wits about him and he'll, he has his hands and he's going to be able to, to be in a part of the economy that is not necessarily going to get disrupted by AI or, know, so I mean, I feel like you have to have a little faith to follow the path that you really feel compelled to follow and not follow everyone else.
Scott Schimmel (06:10)
Mm.
Ken Davenport (06:14)
And I think that's one of the challenges.
Scott Schimmel (06:17)
that's good. One thing that comes to mind, I use this goes back years ago. I was I was supposed to use an air quotes supposed to go into accounting. That's what I felt like was the story that was handed off to me. I chose not to as a big risk. It felt like I was completely changing the script and going against all the expectations. So then I carried into my adulthood, my career, that same sentiment, which was not only was that not right for me, but it wasn't right for anybody. Then nobody can go into that.
and find meaning and purpose. And so I remember a really good friend of mine from college, he decided to go into accounting. And I think sort of worked up the courage over lunch one day, two or three years into our careers to challenge him about that. So I started saying, so what do you do on Mondays? Like, what's your normal Monday? Walk me through the day. And he talked about the meetings he would go to and the reports he would run.
Ken Davenport (07:02)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Schimmel (07:11)
And then he'd take this report and hand to that person. And then, then, so I was like, okay, so then what's Tuesday? And then he told me about Tuesday and I was like, okay, let's fast forward the following Monday. What's that like? And he's like, well, it's just, it's like the other Monday. And so then I felt like I had them. Cause to me that sounded like absolute torture. And so I said some douchey cliche thing like, bro, don't you want more out of life, more meaning? And to his credit, I mean, he, I had forgotten this shame on me.
Ken Davenport (07:23)
And.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (07:41)
He had gone through a really serious medical issue after college. He had cancer and had radiation, chemo, et cetera. And the company he was working for as an accountant was a healthcare firm. So his response to my very elitist, how do you find meaning in just a white collar? You're you're Neo in the matrix. He was like, dude, do you know what I support every day? Do you know the end product? And I was like, no. So he just schooled me.
Ken Davenport (08:06)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Scott Schimmel (08:11)
So I'm sharing that because ⁓ what you just shared is so appropriate from my experience as well. It's like having the courage to find your path regardless of what it is, because that guy, my friend had people like me in his ear saying, hey, you can't go into white collar and be a good person. That's what losers do. Like that's what sheep do. And he was like, no, no, no, that is, there's an intrinsic draw for me, for him to go into that because there is profound meaning behind it that he could see and I couldn't.
Ken Davenport (08:29)
Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (08:40)
So what we're talking about is like, find your thing. Find the thing that pulls you and then have the courage to follow it.
Ken Davenport (08:43)
Yeah.
think part of it also is people have different personalities and are satisfied by different things. I have a bunch of accountants that work for me at Mission Edge. And I'm the antithesis of an accountant personality. I'm not real structured. I'm not real routine based. I don't do the same thing. Every Monday is completely different for me by design. But I also see that there's a lot of satisfaction
in having structure and having predictability for certain people. you know, of course we do mission driven work. So I think they feel like, even though my Monday, this Monday is like last Monday, the purpose, the mission that I'm pursuing is worthwhile and there's some value in that. But also a lot of my employees, you know, they have purpose driven lives outside of work. And you don't, you know, it's the other piece of this. It's kind of interesting is I think a lot of us.
have been wrapped around the idea that you have to have your why, know, your mission defined by your work. And really work is work for a reason. Like sometimes you just need to make money and you need to just, you know, show up every day and do your job and know that it's funding other parts of your lifestyle, family, free time, hobbies, and things that where you can devote yourself to things that you're passionate about. So it doesn't have to be.
Scott Schimmel (09:49)
Yeah, that works.
Ken Davenport (10:13)
You don't have to get paid from nine to five for your passion, but I think most lives are more meaningful when you do have something bigger than yourself to be looking at and thinking about and a purpose with your time on earth.
Scott Schimmel (10:30)
I mean, I couldn't agree more. think ⁓ you are preaching to the choir. think there's this new line of research I just stumbled onto. was reading some line in a book a couple of weeks ago and the guy mentioned this area of research called self-complexity, self-complexity theory. And I'm just such a moth to a flame when there's nerdy psychological frameworks that I could learn. anyways, I found the source documents and this goes back to a report I was reading from 1985.
this researcher was looking at what are the buffers, the protective factors for people that enables them to do well in life, especially through hard things. And so there's a lot of those. There's a lot of kind of buffers and protective factors. But this particular theory has strong evidence that for somebody who sees themselves in different roles and exhibiting different traits, like the more complex you are, the stronger you'll be able to
to weather the storms. the simple example is, ⁓ if you're putting all eggs in one basket, I am a teacher, that is who I am. I'm a teacher, then I go home, teacher go home. And then you've got a bad day, a bad year, a bad feedback from a principal or a parent, it can rock you. But if you're also a coach little league, like I'm a community member, I'm a friend, and it's not just having complexity, it's also reflecting on it. So it is putting a little bit of a... ⁓
Ken Davenport (11:35)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Scott Schimmel (11:56)
like a screwball into my, I think, former philosophy, which has been my motto, which is find the thing inside your work that gives you life, meaning and purpose. And I like what you're saying because it doesn't have to be that. That might not be the right formula for you. And now I'm kind of going back to myself. like, okay, actually, let's help people think about all the different traits they have and different roles they play.
Ken Davenport (12:00)
Thank
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, I think that, you know, let's use the military as example. mean, I would venture to say that a lot of veterans maybe didn't love their day job in the military, didn't love their MOS all the time, you know, what they were doing, but they loved the mission and they loved the idea that they were a part of something and they were, they were part of a team and they were part of something bigger than themselves. And that's the kind of thing that kind of gave you some, some, some meaning in terms of what you're doing, even if you
Scott Schimmel (12:43)
Yeah.
Ken Davenport (12:50)
your day to day might not have been tremendously fulfilling every day. And so I think that, I think it's an important realization to think about life, not as, you know, one linear path, but as many, many experiences and many, many paths and many, different ways to find satisfaction. And I think we've gotten wrapped around the idea that you have to make money. You have to have a lot of money in order to feel, you know, a sense of meaning, purpose and happiness.
Scott Schimmel (13:11)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Ken Davenport (13:20)
And
I think you probably know a lot of the same folks that I know that have money but aren't very happy. They've reached a pinnacle, but they get there and they're like, ⁓ crap, this is really not all that meaningful. still feel, now I'm still depressed. I thought I was gonna be happy when I got here and now I'm here and I don't feel any different. It's a perfect stoic lesson. It doesn't come from the external world. It comes from inside of you.
that happiness, perspective, ⁓ a sense of purpose comes from within you. It doesn't come from any external stimulus or reward.
Scott Schimmel (14:00)
Yeah.
So, okay, you're bringing up stoicism. You literally wrote the book on stoicism and veteran transition. And I think I'm probably wrong, but I think that's how you and I first connected, which was someone who's on our founding team, executive team, Casey Valenti with Factor read your book while she was in Korea, Japan. And gets drawn into this conversation that you're having through a book meets you anyways, long story short.
Ken Davenport (14:20)
Korea. Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (14:29)
I know this is an impossible task, but you've got limited battery on your laptop here. So I want to rush you. Can you give us the top couple stoicism lessons that relate to better open transition?
Ken Davenport (14:35)
Okay, I can give you this.
Sure.
Yeah. Well, I mean, the core tenet of stasis is pretty simple. It's you know, you don't control what happens to you in life, but you can control your reaction. Right. So fundamentally, the world is full of events that you you can't affect. You can't change. So the only thing you have the power over is yourself. It's a it's the it's the original.
2000 year old mindfulness, self-empowerment philosophy. ⁓ And know, famous stoics like Marcus Aurelius who wrote Meditations is a very kind of ⁓ well-known ⁓ leadership and resiliency book. And really I wrote the book primarily because ⁓ when I, in all the work I was doing with veterans was noticing a ⁓ familiar pattern, which is this fear of the unknown.
Scott Schimmel (15:13)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ken Davenport (15:39)
and this anxiety over change, the idea that I'm going from something that I know really well to something that I have no idea about. I've got a million things coming at me at a million miles per hour and I don't know what to focus on. And so, you know, as I started getting into socialism, I realized that there are a lot of lessons here that would be ⁓ really valuable for veterans in transition, which is, you know, focus on the things you can control, right? First and foremost, don't get wrapped around all these
Scott Schimmel (15:52)
Hmm.
Ken Davenport (16:09)
potential things that are coming at you, the things that look shiny but maybe don't really fit you. And slow things down and focus on the things that you can control, which is really your preparation for an interview, for instance, or for looking at opportunity. ⁓ And know that the only thing that we really are able to...
change is how you present yourself, how you prepare yourself and how you kind of use to look at the opportunities in front of you. And so I wrote a very simple book that provides nine sort of rules. I call them for transition and it's everything from, know, find your why, which I do think is important as you sort of looking at leaving the military, but it also is practical stuff. Like, you know, you got to figure out how to
how to do the work, how to prepare yourself every day. It's similar things that you probably learned in the military for veterans. ⁓ Don't fear failure, embrace the opportunity to kind of fall down and learn. And really kind of learn. The other fundamental thing about stoicism is they really want, the stoics were big on ⁓ what they called a more fati, which is love of fate and really
to embrace the situation you're in, even if you don't love it, to kind of embrace the kind of the sucky things about the transition, about the not knowing, to embrace discomfort and the idea that you're not gonna have all the answers. You may actually start a job and decide you don't like it, but that's the learning process that we all go through.
I mean, you think about it, it's very analogous to you get out of college and you get your first job and you hate it. So you quit, right? And then you get another job and you don't like that. So you quit and three or four jobs in, you you started to find maybe a path that you're interested in. It's no different than leaving the military. You're going to have a couple of false starts and that's good. And failure is a gift, you know, embrace the idea of learning. And so it's a really simple concept that
Scott Schimmel (18:03)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Ken Davenport (18:28)
Again, know, simple doesn't make it easy. It's simple, but it's hard to do, but it's a practice. And what I've learned is, you know, that these are things that I talk to myself about every day of showing up intentionally, of taking a deep breath, of taking a step back, of not being reactive, of getting a hold of, you know, my anxiety so that I don't make dumb decisions. And it's just a whole set of tools with which to kind of approach your life.
Scott Schimmel (18:52)
huh.
Yeah.
I mean, it's definitely applicable for so many things, parenting, work, marriage, waking up. Where can people find it? Just what's the quickest way to get more of you, more of that?
Ken Davenport (19:02)
parenting for sure. Yeah, for sure. Marriage for sure. Yeah.
⁓ Yeah,
so the book is called The Stoic Transition. I also have another book that's kind of a compendium to that called The Stoic Edge, which goes a little bit deeper into ⁓ kind of emotional regulation. I talk about anger and shame and guilt and ⁓ procrastination, imposter syndrome. Anyway, so those two books, The Stoic Transition and Stoic Edge, yeah, exactly, ⁓ are both available on Amazon.
Scott Schimmel (19:35)
Is that all?
Nice.
Ken Davenport (19:40)
I tried
to price them super affordably so they're available to folks. Yeah, love to have people give me feedback on what they think. Again, it's just a set of tools to try to you live a better life.
Scott Schimmel (19:56)
I can't recommend them more. think also as you're listening or watching following Ken, connecting with Ken on LinkedIn is great. Some people are posting commercials about themselves. Ken has always put out great content that's thoughtful, thought provoking, and just the kind of person and voice I think everybody needs today, but especially if you're going through transition, that steady voice, it's gonna be okay. And maybe that's how you can close out Ken. Like imagine transitioning veteran.
Ken Davenport (20:20)
and it'll be okay.
Scott Schimmel (20:25)
listening, watching, and all that anxiety and fear you're talking about. What's your 10 second sort of, remember this or don't forget that.
Ken Davenport (20:35)
Man,
that's the easiest answer of all. I tell every veteran, you're going to crush civilian life. You're going to crush it. You have all the skills, all the tools. You have the personality, the drive, the determination. It may not happen immediately, but you're going to get to where you want to go. So don't stress it. It's going to happen for you. And I've seen it a million times over. I believe that 100%. And I think it's something that, you know, it's hard to hear when you don't know it, but.
I've seen it so many times that I know that it'd be true.
Scott Schimmel (21:08)
Yeah. All right. Put that on repeat as you're listening. Ken, thanks for being here. Appreciate it. We'll be in touch soon. You
Ken Davenport (21:11)
All right. Sounds good. Yeah, take care. Good to see you.
