Scott Schimmel (00:00)
All right, we are live. are live. Vector Accelerator, another episode, me and Joe. Joe, you're coming, you're recording from Comic-Con, is that true?
Joe Lara (00:10)
That is, here I am live, Scott, from Comic Con. Yeah. A lot of weird people. Strange people wearing costumes. No, it's been good. Yeah, it wrapped up yesterday, heading back to Texas in a couple of days. But yeah, came out to see some friends. Got to see one of my kiddos, which is awesome. So Cali still feels a little bit home, you know? Yeah. Thanks. Oh no.
Scott Schimmel (00:12)
Yeah, yeah. What do you see out there? Any? Strange people.
did it? Okay.
That's good. You're always welcome back. Just pay the taxes, okay?
Pay homage to Gavin.
Joe Lara (00:39)
You can keep that.
You can keep that.
Scott Schimmel (00:42)
Well, what we wanted to talk about today, you obviously transitioned quite a number of years ago, I think it was 2016 that you transitioned. So one, I'm asking you about your personal experience, but second, you've worked obviously directly in the veteran transition space with the Honor Foundation for years. You now hire veterans and help onboard them to the company you work at. you've seen a lot. So pattern recognition, I just had a conversation with a veteran the other day who was not complaining, but just
Joe Lara (00:49)
correct. Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (01:11)
sharing the sort of shocking experience of applying for so many jobs and hearing nothing. And it was a quick. So that's I was kind of like laughing, like, you know, laughing alongside that. But it was a quick comment that he made. And I remember I can't quote verbatim, but it was something like trying not to get too upset by it was effectively kind of the undertone, like not getting any sort of response after you've applied for a job.
Joe Lara (01:18)
Hmm. Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (01:40)
And he said, I've interviewed with people, never heard back again. I was bef- You know, I was tempted to be like, give him some tactical advice. Well, have you tried following up again? Have you? You know, I assume I guess based on some of my experience, yeah, he's probably not that great of follow up or someone should probably look at his cover letter. So I was going on that side, but then I got off the phone and got off of Zoom and I was like, I think there's so I just want to talk about that. Like the emotional roller coaster.
Joe Lara (02:00)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Scott Schimmel (02:11)
of transition, ⁓ what can you kind of take us back to you? What did you learn from that experience and what was that like for you to kind of have that experience?
Joe Lara (02:22)
I think it's as an individual trying to wrestle with expectation management. Ultimately, you know, that's, that's what I think it's all about. ⁓ Fortunately, I was, you know, went through probably, you know, the gold standard of transition programs, the Honor Foundation. And even then at the end of it, I had a lot of applications out and not a lot of callbacks and ⁓
And then the hard part is you'll hear of friends and buddies that are getting out, know, maybe a couple of months ahead of you or behind you or whatever, and they're landing jobs. And so then there's that comparison thing of, well, what am I doing wrong? Or what are they doing?
Scott Schimmel (03:00)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joe Lara (03:08)
There's just so many variables. And I think that's the part that you don't, you know, know, it's there, you know, that there's multiple variables, you know, timing is a thing, but you're the one going through it and you don't want to deal, you don't want to be that statistic. You want to be on the other side. That's like the best possible version of that transition story. You know, you want to be on that side. ⁓ So many lessons learned.
Scott Schimmel (03:21)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Lara (03:37)
where it was, and I kind of like, it's funny, I was talking to another buddy who just recently had a kid and he's actually inside my company. So he was a seal, ⁓ 10 year veteran, a great guy. He sought us out and we liked him and we hired him. And he just came back from baby leave and we were talking about it. And it's funny because he was saying, Joe, I get it.
I'm like, what do mean you get it? Like having a kid, like I am solely responsible for this thing. It's looking, it's looking back at me. And, and just that whole epiphany and realization. ⁓ and then in that conversation, transition came up too. It's like, it's kind of like also, you know, in a lesser way, obviously transition, you talk about it, but then you're in it. And then here's the result is you finally get a job and you're like, my gosh.
Scott Schimmel (04:10)
Ha ha.
Joe Lara (04:33)
what it's like, you we talk about these things, we're talking about it right now. And you don't want to be on the downside of it. But sometimes it just is, you know, it's just a, I don't want to say a phase or ⁓ a month or two months of, of dry hole. But that's what it could be is like, yeah, I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying, it's just nothing's happening. ⁓ But yeah, it's just, it's just really challenging. ⁓
You gotta get through it.
Scott Schimmel (05:05)
No, well, that's,
she's like, what are you doing? Yeah. There he goes podcasting again. Gosh. She's like stumbled. She stumbled on you late at night and she's like, what are you doing? You freak. And you're like, I'm just podcasting. Well, you're just sharing. think the empathy of that experience. It's hard. And there are a lot of dry holes. There are a lot of people that aren't going to get back to you.
Joe Lara (05:13)
Podcasting again. Yep Gosh
I'm talking to Scott. Leave me alone.
Scott Schimmel (05:33)
you know, and if, and if that's not you, you're probably definitely not listening to this. You're not listening to this podcast. So let's all those losers who get jobs right out of the military. They'll probably be super unhappy later on. my I did not serve in the military. You're just bringing me back either to the last few months of college as you start hearing friends who are getting job hookups, moving to these or going to, you know, big grad school things or
I went to a Catholic high school and I remember that senior year, because my son just went through his senior year where you start seeing other classmates who are wearing like the sweatshirts of what college they're going to. And they're getting the early acceptance or their national merit scholars. So they got these huge scholarships or they're athletes and it's impossible not to have doubts, not to be like, what's, is this ever gonna happen for me?
and start wrapping up an inordinate amount of focus or hopes and dreams on somebody coming through to give you a job offer that you'd be proud of that will support you. And that's a lot. That's a lot of pressure for an email or a LinkedIn message. That's a lot. And so I guess my question in that is what then happens, do you think, to somebody as they're just experiencing the temperatures rising?
Joe Lara (06:48)
Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (06:58)
and the time that they were maybe in like, I was in the green zone, now in the yellow zone, now I'm in the red zone, I still don't have it locked down. Like, what is that experience like?
Joe Lara (07:08)
Yeah, and I was actually in that a little bit. was, I was feeling the heat of, you know, the paycheck had ended at a certain month and there's no income coming in and it's several months later and we have a little bit of a runway, but it's getting a little bit uncomfortable. And then I got a call and, and, you know, timing of things. And so that's so hard to predict.
And I know of veterans where it goes beyond that phase and now they're in the red and they're really struggling. And so I have advice for both of those folks. ⁓ The folks that are kind of in that yellow phase, which I was at, ⁓ and it's a word of caution. And then also for those that are in the red, the word of caution for those that are in the yellow, kind of feeling the heat is don't get desperate. And what that looks like is it's obvious.
Scott Schimmel (07:40)
Sure. Yeah.
Joe Lara (08:05)
I had calls from veterans that were almost like I could hear it in their voice, a sense of panic. I need anything. It's like, dude, like, come on, like, like slow down a little bit. Like, what are you, what have you done? And then I asked and I find out that they're applying for everything under the sun. Just it's whether they qualify or not, they're just hoping something bites on. That's the worst thing you could do. And so that's my word of caution. Don't do that.
Scott Schimmel (08:05)
Yeah.
Yeah, spray and pray.
Great.
Yeah.
Joe Lara (08:35)
Don't
ever be that way. ⁓ And in fact, I think the best thing to do is try to remember how you started when you were in the green, which is the mindset. When we talk about cups of coffee inside Vector Accelerator, networking isn't ⁓ just necessarily self-serving, even though you're the one that needs a job and you're the one that needs to get connected to people with opportunity. How can I serve you? What is it about you that makes you come alive in your work?
How do I remain curious? If you can maintain that curiosity all throughout, even in the yellow phase, if you will, ⁓ like that's gonna serve you so much better because it looks obvious. was a guy that came out of nowhere and I knew he needed work and I explained to him what we were doing, but he was like trying to rush the conversation. Like, yeah, okay, now what it...
Scott Schimmel (09:16)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Lara (09:29)
How do I get in? I was like, dude, are you kidding me right now? You're not listening to me. I can sense it. So I had to slow him down, say, dude, stop. This is probably not gonna happen with us because of this right here. I'm giving you tough love right now. This is so uncomfortable.
Scott Schimmel (09:37)
Yeah, because of it. That's like me with
girls in high school. This is probably not gonna happen. You're coming on a little strong. Yeah.
Joe Lara (09:51)
It's tough love, man. It's tough love.
Like, dude, like this is not gonna work. Like if that's the attitude, what's gonna happen when you do get the job? Is it gonna be like a sigh of relief? And then you're just coasting now? Like, I don't know what I don't know if you really want this like, you know, it because because because the reality is you're gonna get a job and then what you have the job now what are you gonna do? Well, I'm just gonna go to work.
Scott Schimmel (10:04)
Right.
Right. That's right.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Joe Lara (10:19)
the attitude coming in matters because it's going to feed into how you start and how you engage with people. And so it's that yellow desperation. I don't even know what you want to call it. And that's not even desperation. Red's probably desperation. ⁓ for the folks in the red, ⁓ man, ⁓ I think if anything, ⁓ it, and here's the thing is like, it's not a one, one fix it all, fix it all type thing. it,
Scott Schimmel (10:21)
Yeah.
Joe Lara (10:48)
There's so many variables again, but it's, it's not giving up and engaging with more people. I think sometimes in the law, I remember being in sort of that yellow area and my networking did slow down a bit because I think I was getting discouraged. And, I started dialing back the amount of time I was seeking people and I was going more towards online Google searches. I would.
Scott Schimmel (11:03)
Yeah. Yep.
right? Which is
so hopeless.
Joe Lara (11:20)
I think you gotta go the opposite direction. If you're in the red, you need to get away from the machine and go more towards networking events, more involved in community work, even volunteer. dude, like volunteer for Big Brothers, Big Sisters, or something, like do something that gets you in front of people.
Scott Schimmel (11:21)
We're all good dreams go to die.
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah. Yep.
Joe Lara (11:43)
And you're going to probably find more fulfillment and find more networking opportunity in that way. And that's, that's kind of where my mind went when you asked that. Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (11:53)
Yeah, that's,
mean, that's awesome. And I think you and I could probably spot the patterns for veteran that the things that perhaps they start doing or stop doing when they're in the green to yellow zone that we could sit back and predict. Like we're on polymarket and be like, yeah, that's gonna, that's not going to go well. And it's things like slowing down the pace of face to FaceTime. It's starting to go on job search boards and starting to spray and pray and send out your resume.
Joe Lara (12:23)
Spray and pray.
Scott Schimmel (12:24)
And it is,
it's like, that's a, that is the recipe for getting to a place where you're just stuck. You're super stuck. And then it's way too late. It's like really hard to go back. It's really hard to like all of a sudden rethink about your value. So anyways, if you're there, call us. We'll spend 10 minutes with you, giving you some tough love and a little pep talk. Um, but hopefully if you're, you kind of know you're moving from the green to yellow zone.
Joe Lara (12:31)
Mm-hmm.
Tough love.
Scott Schimmel (12:53)
Like, why don't you just write down for yourself as you're listening to this, what are the things that I know I should be doing? And you and I have a mutual friend, Greg, he has this phrase, must do's, can't fail. So what are the things you must do and can't fail at? Just write those things down. Is it make three calls a day? Is it 10 calls a day? Is it one text message? Like whatever it is for you, like just have a real sober mind, that's it. And then I would say there's all these other things that are...
Joe Lara (13:09)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Schimmel (13:23)
I don't know, like we were sailing on Saturday. So buoyancy for you, for your mood and your sense of optimism and hope. And it's face to face time. It's service. I was hearing, as you're saying about the community service, there's this thing called the science of mattering. And part of the science of mattering is you feel like you have value to add somewhere. And if you don't feel like you have value to add, which oftentimes can feel like that in a job search, nobody wants my value. They're literally telling you, no, thank you.
Joe Lara (13:40)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Schimmel (13:53)
We don't think you could have that value here. How much more so do you kind of like need to ⁓ step on the other side of the teeter totter and be like, okay, I do add value in life. I add value to my friends, to my family, to the big brother, big sister, to YMCA, to my church, whatever the thing is, because that'll give you the confidence, I think, to be able to handle some of the pushback that you get in the job search.
Joe Lara (14:06)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. I remember when nothing was hitting on the job front. I was still talking to people that were working in nonprofits and a little bit I know that I would end up working in one, but that was not the intent. ⁓ cause I was actually going to the down the technical path with my background, but, ⁓ I ended up networking, living in San Diego with all a lot of nonprofits and they were doing incredible work.
And so my time got filled with some of that service and I wasn't getting paid. And yes, I felt the heat of no paycheck. I'm not, I'm not saying that it's going to go away, but in that, ⁓ now I have all these other people that are getting to know who I am and now are my advocates for, for opportunity and their ears are looking out for me as well. It's just, it's that, that's how the whole networking thing works. ⁓ but yeah.
Scott Schimmel (15:11)
Yeah. And that's
a very good long-term perspective. And that's, I think if we, you and I, again, we're to look back and see the patterns of people that get stuck. Sometimes the people that are getting to a place of getting stuck, they find the job and then they shut off. Like everything you're talking about, they're just kind of shut down. All right. Got the job. Got it. You know, never going to network again. And then, you know, six months goes by a year and half goes by.
Joe Lara (15:32)
Hmm
Scott Schimmel (15:41)
that job runs out of steam, they get they quit or they get fired or something happens. And they're back in the same spot again. But there's been no additive work that's been done to build relationships. Because I think I know I would say the number one asset you have is building sincere friendships with people that are mutual. And if you're not doing that, over the course of months, and you just disappear, and all of sudden you pop up again.
You just, don't know, it's way harder. It's way harder to make that call and be like, Hey, remember how I ghosted you a year and a half ago? And it, I got a job, I need a job again. Like, so you're, you've embodied that certainly continue to build relationships, continue to add value to people's lives. Even having steady gainful employment that you love. Like, and so, you know, you'll be fine. And in fact, you'll probably never have a job search again. If you'll might be pulled.
Joe Lara (16:12)
It is harder.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
Scott Schimmel (16:36)
don't let your employer hear this, you'll be pulled into something higher, greater, better, more aligned to who you are, or create that on your own versus lose your job and be like, what do I do now? You'll never be in that spot.
Joe Lara (16:48)
Yeah, I mean, you're right, Scott. When I do come across somebody who I haven't spoken to, and maybe it's been like six months, but I'm happy where I'm at. I'm not looking for work, but somebody comes in my mind and I'm like, yeah, I should reach out to them. So I do. And the first question out of their mouth is, Jory, you happy? Is work good? And I guess they're waiting for me to say, no, I'm thinking of going somewhere else. Like, do I know somebody for you? Yeah, I don't know.
Scott Schimmel (17:08)
Mmm. Yeah.
huh, Yep.
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Joe Lara (17:18)
I'd like to think that that's not necessarily always the case.
But to your point, yes. And I'm not great with her. I'm good at building relationships, but I'm really not great at nurturing them naturally. I have to work at it. so it's a great point though, because just because you get in a job, man, anything can happen. The economy can downturn, mergers happen, acquisitions, whatever.
now you're looking for work again. It does look suspicious when somebody who I haven't spoke, this happened on LinkedIn, happens quite a bit, I'm sure to you too. Somebody you haven't seen in years and hey, they're looking for work. Yeah, and I feel bad. like, yeah, if I know somebody, yeah, I'll try to help you. But dang man, like I haven't seen you in four years and now you're saying hi.
Scott Schimmel (17:53)
huh, Yep.
There they
of course. Yeah. Yeah.
And
there's people I know because I've been around the same town like you for a long time. I've been studying the same amount of time and there's a few people I can think of. I'm like, yeah, every two to three years. now I've seen that a dozen times. You know, the same person. And it's like, oh, well, you know, voice of Christmas future or something. Pay attention to that. And I think the last. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Joe Lara (18:14)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mmm, man the patterns. Yeah
People matter though. Yeah, I think that's the theme. The theme that I'm picking up on this conversation with you, Scott, is people matter.
Relationships, nurturing. ⁓ You know, if you find yourself in the red, yellow area of it, try to manage your time away less of just random searches on the internet and go for, go to networking events. I know in veterans, veteran communities, there's like the veteran beer club, which is showing up all over the country.
Scott Schimmel (19:00)
yeah, that's huge. Yeah.
Yeah.
Joe Lara (19:02)
That's probably like, started in San Diego actually. And now it's like in major cities all over the country. There's, there's a ⁓ team Rubicon, if you want to get involved and there's so many opportunities to run into veterans and in that service, you meet people, you exercise those things of, of, of relationships and people. Yeah, it's good. It's
Scott Schimmel (19:21)
Gosh, you're making it sound normal, not like cringy or
lame to network. Making just sound like it's a normal, good thing to do. That's cool. Well, I don't know where to this episode. Something, the good things you ought to be doing during transition to help you in the long run. We'll figure out a title, but that's what we're talking about. And that's a big part of, again, from the vector standpoint, the structure of the curriculum, the program itself.
Joe Lara (19:30)
It is very normal.
Yeah. Yep.
Scott Schimmel (19:51)
is designed to give you some of that scaffolding. think everybody needs a checklist from time to time. Tell me what to do. Show me how it works. That's what we're doing for you. And maybe you're listening and you're not a veteran transition, but you're part of another veteran organization supporting them or working for them. Like we would love to just plug into what you're doing and help the folks you're serving have some of that structure as well. Let's really lean into that better together sort of concept.
So anyways, Joe enjoy the rest of San Diego. Thanks for coming back to town You're welcome anytime now Get out
Joe Lara (20:27)
Thanks, brother.
All right, see you.
Scott Schimmel (20:30)
See
