Scott Schimmel (00:01)
So
in this conversation, what we wanted to get into is like, how do you measure impact in this space of veteran transition? You and I started together on this journey over 10 years ago when you were going through the Honor Foundation and I was one of the faculty. And that question was just as live then. How do we measure impact? What I'd heard initially about the Honor Foundation is there's gonna be this organization that's built, that's gonna get the most sort of elite in the military, the best jobs.
And just standing back from that, that sounds awesome. Yeah, who doesn't want to support people who've sacrificed, help them find the right jobs. But very early on, and this is why I got involved, the question that I inserted that was inserted in Honor Foundation is, that really the goal? Is it really the goal to get someone a great job? What if there's more to it? And that's where you obviously start wading into these conversations around purpose and meaning and satisfaction. And that's very different than
Yes or no, they got a job or didn't. How much did they make? Was it higher than this or lower than that? Those are really simple ways to measure impact, but they don't tell the full story. So maybe take me back. You've, you know, obviously went through this yourself as a participant. You then worked with the Honor Foundation for three years. Now you've helped start Vector Accelerator. Like take us back in that journey. How do you measure all this?
Joe Lara (01:21)
it's funny because one of the questions that, that you, you asked me early on, we asked hundreds of veterans as part of vector, as part of this process, what does success look like? It kind of starts there, right? What does success look like? And, it can be very, it's going to be different based off of the individual's needs, the external needs, which we've talked about at great length. Some people.
Scott Schimmel (01:32)
Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Lara (01:45)
You know what, I just need to stay in San Diego or the Western side of the country. And if I find a job that's success. But you know, you and I are usually not satisfied with that answer because I, okay, we'll dream a little bit bigger and then let's get to the root of cause. So there's, there's that, that whole way to measure success. And sometimes veterans are, are thinking if I meet those needs, then I've I'm successful. The program worked or they, the other thing that they do is they look at other people and they want what they have.
Scott Schimmel (01:50)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Joe Lara (02:13)
or they'll compare and contrast. And so that'll kind of determine what success looks like. I think, you know, after going through the process myself, it's not easy to describe, but all the things that we want our veterans and people to feel is connected to the relationships, to what they're about, that they know their purpose, they know what matters most and they're super clear on that. That's really hard to measure. â
Scott Schimmel (02:35)
Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Lara (02:37)
When I was working at the Arna Foundation for four years, we worked with at the time hundreds of veterans. Now they have like what, three, 4,000 graduates. And we measure success by jobs because donors, you know, or at least so, like, hey, what's my money going towards? So people getting jobs. And so we'll look at statistics. And actually they're really good. So we know that this curriculum works. We've done it for 10 years. We're bringing it over to Vector. We're offering it to all veterans now. So we know it works. Veterans get jobs.
Scott Schimmel (02:51)
Yeah.
Joe Lara (03:05)
But we also want them to get jobs that are meaningful. Right. And so again, it goes back to this feeling word because the donor is like, are they getting jobs? But I want to know, are you happy in your job? Right. So there's that question. And, and so it's really hard to measure. So I think it's really important and I'm glad we're working with Dr. Evy, right. And we're going to get to that in a little bit, but inside the honor foundation, we started asking the question, Hey, how, how would you rate your confidence level?
Scott Schimmel (03:17)
Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Lara (03:33)
on day one of the honor foundation, far as finding a career or finding fulfillment. And then at the end of the honor foundation, we'll ask them, knowing what you know now, do you feel you were confident as confident? And most of the friends will say, no, I thought I had an idea, but I realized I didn't back then. Today I do. And so that, that speaks volumes to us because it lets us know we're on, we're hitting the mark. but it's, it's a little bit different now though. I mean, now we're, we're starting to work with Dr. Evy and getting really things fine tuned, right?
Scott Schimmel (03:38)
Mm-hmm.
Right. Right.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And you, you were really good at the beginning of vector accelerator. This is two, three years ago of doing research to figure out what are all of the veteran service organizations doing to measure veteran transition. And that's, there's a, there's a piece of that now in the way that we assess impact for vector. Like there's pieces of, I think if I'm remembering resilience, life satisfaction.
And then hope is the particular thing that Ebi brings. Again, we're going to get into that. Talks about like the different, the landscape out there and what we've heard, what we've learned.
Joe Lara (04:37)
man, we've learned a lot from those early surveys. The one that was kind of, we knew that this program worked, but we didn't know until we had the data to kind of, yeah, there's a feeling of like, I'm getting a sense that when I'm reading the comments and I'm seeing the students go through, there's a sense of clarity happening. But to actually see it on paper and actually see the numbers and.
Scott Schimmel (04:43)
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Different levels of knowing. Yeah.
Joe Lara (05:01)
And then, and then I think we started capturing some of the testimonials on video. When I saw those first testimonials, dude, it's, it's so rewarding to see veterans find this, this new sense of, of moving forward with purpose and intentionality that they just clearly didn't have before taking the course. That's what's really been neat. Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (05:20)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And as we are, I think, continue to work more and more veterans, we, guess, as we measure what success is, we're allowing them to inform for the next person what success is as they're getting clarity about purpose and their identity, as they're getting clear about their career. That's actually given us more insight to the gaps maybe that are missing in the program that we have.
but also ways to kind of like, I don't know, turn up the dial of certain conversations to have, because the people that then find their way, find the career that's meaningful, find the community that matters, that does inform and shape how we do things in the current kind of state. So one of the questions I think, as we interface a lot with different veteran service organizations, and by the way, that's one of our primary ways of growth is we wanna plug what we have into your organization.
If you're listening, we love to partner. So we're not trying to create the end all be all. We're trying to partner with everybody. But what we continue to hear is like there's, there's actually some mystery around how you measure. And you framed it earlier. Like there's donors who want a certain thing. There's whether that's an individual donor, corporation, foundation, everyone's kind of looking for things. And the lowest common denominator has been jobs. And once you get beyond that, gets, it gets fuzzy. So what we're
Joe Lara (06:39)
Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (06:44)
wanting to share is how we have been going on this path with some people way smarter than you and I rallied around this and are figuring out how to measure the fluffy stuff, the intangible stuff, the feelings stuff, the gray stuff.
Joe Lara (07:00)
got, here's an example. And I'll leave out the name. I'll change the name. I'll just call them Joe Jr. Right. Joe Jr. was going through the honor foundation and we have this introspective work, which is now vector accelerator, right? It's really cool to see it, for all veterans now, but, the sky's going through it. And at the time we had, and they still do, it's called story night where you kind of pull all these pieces together and you present your story, the story you feel you need to tell.
Scott Schimmel (07:06)
you
Joe Lara (07:28)
in front of an audience. The audience are other fellow veterans, people that matter, people that care and want to see you succeed. It does feel like you're in a fishbowl though. It feels like everybody's looking at you. So there's that piece. But Joe Jr. was preparing and I remember he actually rehearsed it in front of the class two nights before. And I'm just gonna admit dude, it was not a good story. was so dry, so predictable.
Scott Schimmel (07:36)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Joe Lara (07:52)
And we're, we all gave him tough love and said, dude, that story sucks. â go back. And he's like, it's, gotta do this in two days. Well, don't do that. Right. And that was the feedback. Tough love, man. That's what veterans do. and he came back in two days and he delivered a story that I don't even want to give the details of it, but it caused him to break down in tears. And not only that he.
Scott Schimmel (07:56)
Hahaha
Yeah.
Mm.
Joe Lara (08:18)
Basically said look I can't continue with the Honor Foundation. I'm not ready to get out right now. In fact, I know what I need to do. I need to stay in the military. I'm gonna sign up for four more years and I'm gonna try to figure out as I take custody of my children. I'm gonna go to school and work on upskilling my resume in such-and-such industry. I'm gonna be better prepared because right now I'm clearly not. Now
A donor doesn't see that because a donor sees somebody that didn't get a job out of the honor. Actually, they don't even see him because he didn't finish. And I'm witnessing this Joe Jr. get clarity and a sense of meaning and purpose. And a sense of meaning and purpose doesn't mean the thing I got it. I'm never moving off. It's just, it's just confidence. It's hope. â I wouldn't call it hope then, but now I am looking back at it now. That was hope.
Scott Schimmel (08:54)
Right. Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Joe Lara (09:17)
that he didn't
have before. That's priceless. How do we measure that? I think we partnered with the right people to measure that now, Scott.
Scott Schimmel (09:21)
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Yeah. So that's why soon in two weeks on September 29th, we're inviting anyone who wants to come to come hear from Dr. Evy Trevino, who is trained as a quantitative psychologist, which is a researcher who understands she understands how to measure impact. She understands how to put together a system for us, which is through actor and you through other veteran service organizations, how to measure this intangible stuff.
and put quantifiable numbers to it so that we can not only tell a better story for impact, but also do better work. It can inform how we shape what we're doing, the intervention itself, the programming itself. So she's gonna give kind of like, you know, sneak peek, open the curtain, show inside the tool that she's helped us develop, the tool that we use and how you can benefit from that essentially. we kind of feel like...
This seems to be such a universal challenge amongst those who care about veterans. Like let's not hold onto this, let's just share it. So there's no bait and switch. We just want to share what we're learning. We love to come. If you're watching this, listen to this before then sign up on our websites. the actually be in the show notes here. If you're tracking this afterwards, after September 29th, 2025, just shoot us an email. We'll send you the recording. We'll also kind of, you know, start a conversation with you about how we can partner together.
to make more of an impact. think I haven't found anybody who just, when they hear about measuring more impact, especially on the purpose side, identity, all that stuff, who's like, nah, you know what? We just want to give them jobs. don't want that fun stuff. We just want them to get like boring jobs and pay the bills. Like, of course we want to do right by them. So you are welcome to come. We love for you to come and have a conversation with us as we learn together how to do this better.
