Scott Schimmel (00:01)
There we go. See you next time. Hey Joe, this is Scott. I am the co-host of the Vector podcast alongside you and we're back for another episode. And one of the things that you and I have been talking about a lot lately is how do you decide what to do in your transition? Because some people are going to have very fixed and limited options. so survival is the name of the game. Just take what you can get. But I think for most people that
we've been talking to and working with, there's not just a variety of ⁓ opportunities. There's like, these opportunities go down drastically different paths from geography where you live, which ultimately determines who you spend time with, not to mention career fields, education paths. mean, these are, these are wildly different paths. And we talked previously about an, in an episode a few weeks ago about kind of the good, better, best.
life. And that's a way to anticipate and have a vision for where you're going. But I thought we can get into this episode, like the best advice that you and I would give as friends and as coaches to folks in transition, for how do you make the decision ultimately about what do you do? I go left or slightly left or straight up the middle? And so I thought if you could go back in time a little bit, I know you've
You worked at the Honor Foundation for four years, I think. And I'm curious if you can go back then, was there like a deciding process that made you decide to go into that? And then I know you left too, so maybe you can talk about a couple of those bookends.
Joe Lara (01:32)
Yeah.
Sure. So if you, if you back up to being a student in the honor foundation, when your mind is coming right out of the military, that's the disposition. That's the, only know government work. You only know government paycheck. And that's just kind of the life you think about the next life. And so your decision-making feels like it's linear. And we've talked about this numerous times. It feels very linear. ⁓
Scott Schimmel (02:10)
Yeah.
Joe Lara (02:13)
There's like, a natural progression of things. Well, I have this top secret clearance, which I had for 24 years. I should probably retain it and probably find work where I can use it again. It makes sense. That is the mindset. But then there's a certain point when you start doing this self discovery and you sort of start owning it. I think that's the piece. There's like a little switch of owning this version of you that you didn't.
realize was there the whole time. Maybe some of your talents and strengths were suppressed or maybe some of the things that you were into were suppressed because the job you did in the military didn't let you really explore those areas, if that makes sense. And so I think in the self-discovery piece, which Vector is designed to do, there's an awareness and that awareness is actually empowering. And so that doesn't mean, ⁓
Scott Schimmel (02:55)
Yeah. Yep.
Joe Lara (03:11)
I'm now aware that I love to solve problems. Therefore, I'm going to go do this job here. That's not, don't continue drawing lines. That's what I want to make sure that people hear is like, vector isn't going to tell you what to do, but it, but it will equip you to open up the aperture a bit. And what you don't realize is on the left and right side of that vision is, is opportunities that you weren't even privy to that you didn't realize, man, I could actually do that and do that. Wow.
Scott Schimmel (03:22)
Right.
Joe Lara (03:39)
because you were so linear in front-side focus, you had no idea that there's really goodness on the side. And then the goodness is where you're encouraged, we encourage you at Vector, we encourage you at the Honor Foundation to explore. Like really explore, ask questions, get curious. The curiosity, man, that's a cool rabbit hole to go down because it can feel daunting, just being honest, it can feel a little overwhelming.
Scott Schimmel (03:54)
Yeah.
Joe Lara (04:08)
But that's the goodness that that that uncom that the uncomfortable place is where we want you to hang out and a good old get comfortable being uncomfortable cliche thing in the military. It continues in this space as well. Explore and, ⁓ and I'll pause right there because I want to pull you in and see what you're thinking, but that's kind of what led to the next things. And the things that I'm continuing to do now is just the curiosity piece.
Scott Schimmel (04:34)
I love that. And I think what you're helping frame is just like the different perspectives to look through, lenses to look through so that you can see what's going on. I think another piece of that is maybe not a lens, a voice, like whose voice is in your head. It's not always just mine. I remember the first job I had out of college, I decided not to go into finance and accounting. I wanted to have a totally different kind of life and trajectory.
Joe Lara (04:53)
Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (05:03)
particularly for my character, but also I was really drawn to making an impact in people's lives directly, not downstream, but where I could see that. So there was a guy that I ended up working for, hired me, he's a mentor of mine in college, hired me, and it was maybe two years into working with him, and it was a guy that I just so deeply respected, wanted to be like him. I was very, in hindsight, very, I don't know, I might use the word jealous, jealous for his affirmation and validation. He's this,
very talented leader, very, very impactful leader. And I overheard him have a conversation where someone was asking him about his kids. had two boys at the time. I think they were in high school or college, just maybe a couple of years or a few years younger than me. And this friend that I overheard their conversation said, do you want to my mentor, my boss, you know, would you like your, your boys to join you in this work? And he goes, heck no. This is, this is like really risky and
And a part of what we did was raise money and, I remember being like, what are you talking about, dude? Like, I've, I've decided to follow you, I've trusted you, and I found out you wouldn't even let your own loved ones do this. Like I thought you loved me. So when in hindsight, I am glad that I followed him, I'm glad that I went into that work. But if I'm honest, if I could go back in time and try to understand
Joe Lara (06:13)
Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (06:32)
my subconscious thought process, I think a lot of it at the time was to impress him. because I felt like if I were to go down the path with him, I would get the affirmation I was looking, the validation I was looking for. And then to try to parse that out because was that good or bad? But it's always a mixed bag. But now ever since that moment,
I've been more cautious or suspicious of my own motivations for things because I think there are just a variety of voices in my head. I'm just curious what you think about that.
Joe Lara (07:11)
Yeah, I think, I mean, definitely the, there was a lot of really cool, how do I describe it? Not distractions, but, ⁓ like it's like lasers and a cat trying to chase them. Like, like when you start opening up the aperture, there's a lot of really neat ideas that pop. And so some of the energy will pull you in those directions. and, and that's a, that's a good thing, but it can feel overwhelming. Like I kind of mentioned,
I think what I kind of, what comes to mind is to help sort of hone in on a couple of vectors and we'll use that, that word vector, is in the reflection, going back to what makes you feel, ⁓ like you, like, like your best moments in work, all the work that we do with storytelling to pull out your strengths and your talents and your values, all that stuff.
It's not just a label it. ⁓ A lot of that work that we do in the front end of vector is to become the lens to look at opportunity. So when I look at now an opportunity, say I have, man, SpaceX, they're launching rockets and they might put somebody on Mars. That sounds cool, right? It's cool. It's amazing. I got posters on my wall of these rockets taking off. Cause I think it's cool. But then when I start layering the lens of who I am on top of that and the jobs,
Maybe I might not find anything that actually fits that potential area. You know, they need scientists, they need whatever. And you know what? That's probably not built for me. But what led me into the Honor Foundation was this lens that I had that had this consistent theme of service to others, helping others find clarity, helping others develop. That made sense. Now, did nonprofit meet all of my needs? Well,
Scott Schimmel (09:00)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Joe Lara (09:09)
You know, those are the sacrifices you make. Maybe, maybe you need to get paid more than nonprofit work. So that might not have worked then. For me, it worked out perfectly. ⁓ I could, I can make that, that sacrifice if you will. And, ⁓ and I'm better for it. I think by making those, how do I summarize this by making intentional decisions and being disciplined in our, in our strengths and values. Right. So if I can be disciplined.
Scott Schimmel (09:17)
Yeah.
Joe Lara (09:38)
in who I am, then, then what I choose to do, it's going to be consistent. It's not going to be some random thing, you know, it's going to be really consistent and it'll help kind of all those lasers that are distractions of, that'd be cool. That'd be cool. Helps kind of quiet that and, and, and make it more focused. Now, ⁓ what's really neat is that you start realizing there's a lot of really amazing places where I can invest myself. And now it's just a matter of time and sacrifice. Like,
Scott Schimmel (09:42)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Joe Lara (10:08)
What am I willing to parse myself out to get involved with? And some of that might be volunteering. Some of that might be an actual job, maybe a side gig, starting a business. Veterans start realizing in this side of it that, man, I'm not defined by what I do now anymore. It's, it's, it's by who I am as a person and what I'm called to do. It's just a higher way of living. I don't know how else to describe it, but it's, it's a really cool place to be.
Scott Schimmel (10:10)
Right.
Yeah. Yeah.
And you're describing, I think, the divincer chain, who I am, and who I'm not. And I think that's the kind of pressure, or voices or lenses that we want to help people become aware of as they as they're making the decisions. Because when you once you make the decision, there are consequences. I don't remember ever hearing you sound bitter about the salary compensation that you had by serving others, put others in front of you.
Joe Lara (10:42)
Mm.
Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (11:03)
ever because
Joe Lara (11:03)
Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (11:04)
I think you and you could have for sure like, this doesn't make enough money. You never complain once. At least that I heard. I think it's because you chose to do it. You knew what you were choosing when people choose things because they feel like they have to because their hands are tied. There's no other choice. This is what people expect from me. ⁓ Or even like a like that imaginary voice that some of us carry of they, you know, they're
They expect this from me. are good people from my world do this sort of thing, even though it's not what I want. But this is, you know, for the sake of others. It's interesting. I've read quite a bit of research and this has been researched a lot to the extent or to the degree that you're doing something, especially career wise, because you feel like you have to. You're supposed to. There's expectation for you. It is proven that that will not last long.
Joe Lara (11:34)
Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (12:02)
And even I think from those folks in the military are like, no, I know, you know, I know how to grind. Even though ⁓ you might be able to grind, you don't have an unlimited tank. So the two big things that tend to like happen when you run out of gas is two, don't persist as long as you could have because it's not ultimately your engine that's driving, it's someone else's.
Joe Lara (12:03)
Mm.
Right.
Scott Schimmel (12:29)
And so when don't persist, then when challenges come, it gets a lot harder. You can get burnt out. You can hit a wall. You might not upscale. You might not grow in the skills you're supposed to have. So that's one piece of it. You won't persist. The other part is it won't be as satisfying. And what does that matter? Well, it might not matter today, but it definitely matters a month from now, six months from now, year from now, five years from now. Because if you don't, if you're not satisfied by this work, again, the engine's going to
Joe Lara (12:30)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (12:57)
kind of good. So I will neither be persistent nor happy. So it's like success, a career success and a deeper sense of meaning, which is why I think to your point, like it requires quite a bit of, I don't know what you call it, like let letting things percolate or settle so that when you choose something, it's because I want to do it because this is an expression of who I am. And it's with all those constraints, I need to make this money and live in this place.
provide for these people, but I'm choosing to do this versus feeling like I don't know what else to do. This is what I'm supposed to do. This is the opportunity. I say, I guess I better take it. That will not lead you to a place that's good for you.
Joe Lara (13:37)
Yeah.
It's, it's boils down to the ability to choose. Right. ⁓ I think some people choose, ⁓ or, or take an offer and, and they, they'll feel, well, I don't have a choice. Yeah. You always have a choice. It's, it's voluntary on this side of things outside the military. It's a voluntary world, you know, ⁓ you can literally quit.
Scott Schimmel (13:57)
Yeah, always, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Joe Lara (14:09)
on day one after accepting the offer and walk away and you're going to make some people mad, but you have the right to quit. So that that's a weird place to be. And I think that's probably what kind of throws some veterans off because they're like, wait, I actually can choose. Even though it feels obvious and it sounds obvious. It's it just, it's not what you're normally used to. And, ⁓ so the whole.
Scott Schimmel (14:10)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Joe Lara (14:38)
The whole realization that, I can actually move with intentional intentionality, ⁓ slow down the process to make wiser choices. And I think that's really the essence of what vector is about. If I had to summarize vector, it's about helping you slow down, get clear on who you are so you can make better choices in life. Cause it's also beyond jobs, dude. Like, I mean, the things that you're involved in the things I'm involved in.
The, and the things that we love hearing about veterans, some of it's not even about work. It's just about maybe some new relationships that they've built along the way. ⁓ some involvement in some activities that just make them feel like, man, I've never seen you smile that much before. Well, it's because I'm doing this and has nothing to do with a salary. That's that's the jam. That's the man that stuff fuels fuels us for sure.
Scott Schimmel (15:10)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
just read an article in the Wall Street Journal yesterday, it was a woman and the title, the title grabbed me. She said, I'm done bringing my whole self to work. I think that was the title. But there was a short pretty short article and she just was talking about how over the past like five years, especially in the post coded world, people have been encouraged to bring your whole self to work. And she kind of kept saying that phrase, bring your whole self. And she's like, No, I don't. It doesn't work to bring my whole self to work. My cat, you know, like, my my
⁓ my brokenness, ⁓ nor do we want that from everyone else either. So to your point, life after the military is much more than just what you do professionally. However, the things that you choose to do professionally, again, to the degree that you can say, I am choosing that and here is why. It's an expression of the vision I have for my life. It's something I'm interested in growing in. I'm drawn to it. ⁓ It aligns with what's most important to me.
Joe Lara (15:59)
Yeah.
for sure.
Scott Schimmel (16:25)
these sorts of deeper, thoughtful things. If you can do a little soul searching, some introspection, some journal writing and conversation, and get yourself there and think through, this is why I'm doing this. And then keep that in front of you because the resistance will come. It will be annoying. Unfortunately, most of us work with other people, period, which means you got other people and they're bringing their whole selves to work. But to...
Joe Lara (16:45)
Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (16:54)
come back to, I don't have to do this. I'm choosing to do this. And I don't know about you. Again, I'm the civilian that's in this kind of military world. I look at the military sometimes and I think, man, you all are pretty good at taking orders. Is there though an opting in to being told what to do? Is there a dynamic there? Because it's not prison. I don't think.
Joe Lara (17:10)
Mm-hmm.
No, no. Well, I mean, so, so yes, there is there are orders, right. And sometimes it's like, can't tell you how many times when you when you're brand new in the military, you're cleaning a lot of floors and a lot of bathrooms and those kinds of things, because it's just part of what your job entails. Everything that you're told to do, right. ⁓ But I think a lot of what's missed ⁓ by those that don't know what happens inside the military is
Scott Schimmel (17:32)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Joe Lara (17:49)
the further along you get in the more technical experience you get and wisdom you get, there's a lot of problem solving that comes into play. so I think sometimes we are kind of often overlooked that because we look at the larger picture of, I'm here because I'm supposed to be here. Yes, you have orders to be at this location. However, how you approach your work is going to be uniquely you. Right. So.
Scott Schimmel (17:59)
Mm.
Joe Lara (18:17)
Let's just say I have to move. ⁓ there's two individuals and they have a 20 person team each and they have to do XYZ function. The function is going to get done by both teams. However, one is going to be very, maybe, ⁓ involve opinions from the troops, maybe not execute exactly what they're saying, saying, Hey, give me some input of how to best execute this. Another one might say, no, I'm going to, I'm going to strategize about this a little bit more. I want to call in my top two.
people and help me that they're going to just approach it differently. The result could be probably the exact same thing, but how they got there is different. It's very much them. And that's the cool stuff, right? How people show up in their work, not necessarily the work, but who they are as they're doing the work. That's, that's really exciting to kind of tease out. And, then align that stuff to like the opportunities and civilian sector, like, Hey, let's look at that.
Right? Where could you do some more of that stuff? Maybe it's creative. Maybe it's, I don't know, man, we can go on with a list of things that make people unique.
Scott Schimmel (19:23)
Well, if as you're listening to this and you're thinking man, I want to make the right choice the right reasons at the right time then send us ⁓ an email send us a Message wherever you're listening to this and we'll ship a tool to you I've just been lovingly call it the don't f it up assessment It's just a guide a series of questions to walk through so you don't f it up You know make the wrong choice and be like oopsie And that's another way to say it. Yeah
Joe Lara (19:48)
⁓ fudge.
Scott Schimmel (19:51)
We used to use a headline, we help you forget what to do when you grow up. But also, we, ⁓ maybe we should work on like workshop that we help you not F up. You're the big choice that you're making after. ⁓ And I'm saying F because I don't want the explicit tag on this episode and have to explain things to my mom. ⁓ Joe, thanks for, thanks for jumping on the pod. See you soon.
Joe Lara (20:15)
Bye brother, take care.
