Scott Schimmel (00:03)
Hey Joe, ⁓ happy Monday. Happy Monday, February 9th. How are you? It's the week of love and I love doing podcasts with you.
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (00:12)
I love doing him with you too. you have big
plans with the family for Valentine? Is that a family thing or is that a?
Scott Schimmel (00:21)
Good question. That's a good question. It had been our kids are a little bit older. So I think early days it was like, yeah, let's do let's make it a family thing. But I think number one, our kids don't really want to be spend time with us anymore. And number two, I don't feel like we have to. So that being said, I don't think we're going to go anywhere, especially this year. It's on a Saturday night. And we just it hasn't really been our thing to like go over spend on a meal we didn't really like. I'm you know.
I also love love, so I'll think of something thoughtful between us. How about you?
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (00:51)
You will, you will. We got plans. We're gonna go to, I mean, we're in a new town. Dallas
is new to us. We just moved to Texas. So we're exploring new restaurants. There's one that my wife was kind of eyeballing. So why not try it out?
Scott Schimmel (01:04)
next.
Perfect. Well, speaking of love, the opposite of love I've heard is fear. And what we want to talk about in this episode is fear and how it distorts transition, veteran transition, how it can play a part and ideally how we can identify it and deal with it so that we can transition well. So I'm going to ask you first to go back in time. And if you're willing to admit it, I know this is a
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (01:12)
Mm.
Scott Schimmel (01:37)
order for a soldier to share the things that you were afraid of when you were going through transition. Just maybe the first thing that came top of your head.
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (01:46)
the paycheck ending.
mean, talk about timely, you know, exactly the, the, to the penny, what it's going to be. and that structure it's, it's so unknown. And so there's a lot of pressure and, ⁓ in our house, I was the primary bed bread winner. My wife, you know, she was a house mom, but she also taught a little bit, but it was not nearly enough income to cover the costs. And.
And I remember we had a lot of financial conversations in that, in that last year leading up till, then even beyond when, when the last day in the military hit, it was still a thing. Very much so for us. Yeah. Yeah. That was the biggest fear was, was finances, which I get, right. Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (02:30)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. What did that do to you? Did that, did you and Kim like talking about it? Like, how did fear play its part in those conversations?
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (02:44)
Well, yeah, so we had some honest conversations and
I remember distinctly we were speaking of dinner. We were having dinner and I said, Hey honey, what do you think about joining the workforce?
⁓ got to her and, and she, yeah. Yeah. How about, how about helping out an old husband here? And she looked at me like, she looked at me like I was speaking in another language, like, like just the most confused look. Like, what are you talking about? Like we got kids to raise. got stuff to, like, who's going to, you know what I mean? It just totally caught her off guard. ⁓ I knew the answer was not going to go.
Scott Schimmel (03:01)
To her? What do you think about winning some bread, honey?
You
Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (03:28)
the way I was hoping it would go where like, yeah, maybe I can do something part time or whatever and help out. I was, I was just testing the waters. So you're saying there's a chance. No, it's just, it was, it was, it was a good way to kind of have, I mean, and that's the thing too, is we had conversations we probably never would have had, right? But because of the transition. So it's a pivotal one. Yeah. We talk about it all the time. Veterans are going to transition numerous times.
Scott Schimmel (03:36)
So you're exploring your options. That's what fear did at first. One option, hey, maybe I don't have to work.
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (03:56)
This one's really, really heavy. It's really weighted.
Scott Schimmel (03:57)
Yeah.
I have not served in military, but I've certainly had the stress of finances. And it is something our families are very similar to yours. I've certainly carried and carry the pressure of earning income to be able to provide for the family. And what often happens, I think to me when when you know, the natural times to talk about money, or we get into a tight spot. ⁓ What happens to me is I then allow or give space to my wife to share her fear.
And that feels like whatever I was handling was at my max. And now I'm just, I'm out, I'm done. I've got, can't also handle the emotion on her side. So I don't, I don't know. think in a big picture, what we've learned from walking with lots of veterans is fear is present. And if you're saying you're not afraid, it's probably because you're emotionally shut down, not because fear is not there. You just can't feel it currently, but fear can often overwhelm us.
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (04:39)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (05:02)
it can overwhelm somebody and to the point of not being able to handle it and it'll then come out in a variety of ways. It'll leak out and I'm curious for you how did how did fear leak out besides trying to get your wife to work for you?
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (05:12)
Well, I
so I think I handle stress pretty well and that's just kind of just being self-aware. And this is a different type of stress. So you have the stress that comes from the job of the military, which deployments and those things can be a certain type of stress. You learn how to deal with some of that. ⁓ This was super unfamiliar and I think that's it. It's unfamiliar territory. ⁓ There's a lot of structure and you know what your next.
order duty station is going to be, or at least you can negotiate sometimes, but most of the time you're told go here and you're there for two years or three years doing the job. it's, don't get me wrong, there's, still some unknowns, but, you can kind of see where you're going. This is a completely new adventure and it feels like uncharted waters. Even though you know, other veterans have done it. It feels like nobody's ever done it before.
Scott Schimmel (05:53)
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (06:09)
And, which is kind of crazy because
you would think, well, let me talk to other veterans who've navigated it. But there's also this thing of, can figure it out. ⁓ you know, ⁓ other people have done it. We'll be fine. It's okay. ⁓ it, but the fear is inside for sure. Because it's just not normal. Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (06:18)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, you're not so I'm just using air quotes. You're not supposed to be afraid, right? I don't know if there's a ⁓ culture where that would be more true. Obviously, certain cultures being macho, manly, masculine, that's also that's a little frowned upon to also say, hey, I'm scared right now. But military, especially you're all able to handle quite a bit of complexity and stress, like you said, whether it's deployment or whatever. ⁓
I am curious, I've noticed a pattern in some folks in that fear of the money, sometimes being willing to compromise something that's important to you to be able to relieve that fear. Because if you can get a job and there's steady income, you know, take it. And there's a lot of common sense there. Have you seen that?
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (07:17)
I mean, yes, a hundred percent. And I think,
you know, this goes back to really the fuel that lit me up to get to this point where you and I have built this thing with Casey and a bunch of other amazing people, Vector Accelerator for veterans. It's we've seen the outcome of veterans who choose out of desperation. They choose unknowingly, unwittingly.
And it's the money thing. It's a financial, it's the external needs. And sometimes it's not even the money. It's maybe the location. That's really the driver. It's we got to stay in San Diego. We got to stay in Texas. We got to stay because the kids are here or we're going to homestead. And that becomes the primary need, which is important. I don't ever want to shy away from that conversation because it needs to happen. And in fact, a lot of the original curriculum we talked about was
What are those external needs? Let's talk about those, not necessarily answer them, but let's talk about them. But what's neat about vector and these conversations that you and I have is we want to get to that, that fear conversation, that, that the unknown conversation, the layers below the surface, which are all inside the head, which can be very, it can be, you can feel alone and, and it's not cool. It's not cool at all. ⁓ so, you know, that's.
Scott Schimmel (08:12)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (08:36)
really the fuel for Vector Accelerator and why I think you and I are constantly going to be in this space because it's never going to stop until all the veterans know that they need to do this work. When all military people know, ⁓ yeah, I'm going to do Vector Accelerator. I'm going to do this thing. And man, when I hear that, when you hear that, we're going to celebrate like you would not believe. We'll stop podcasting.
Scott Schimmel (08:44)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, we'll stop podcasting to you mentioned being alone. think that's something I've also heard over the years is the sense of losing community losing belonging using losing team. And the idea that you might not get that back. And I know, especially in the Marines like to say once Marine always a Marine, but in a sense of it's it's different. There's a role change is a status change. There's a communal change, that fear of isolation not being a part of something as a group. ⁓
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (09:18)
LER.
Scott Schimmel (09:26)
Did you feel that? Because I know sometimes people just kind of, their transition's a little bit like elongated. So they feel, you know, they're doing something, they're kind of disconnected over the course of months or even a couple of years. What was that like for you?
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (09:34)
Yeah. you know what? Well, I had a healthy
transition because luckily I had these questions before I punched out. So, so I had a, I had an intentional path, but I will say at the honor foundation where this, a lot of this curriculum was practiced and rehearsed for years with hundreds and thousands of veterans. So we know it works. was one night we're going through these types of conversations with the veterans.
Scott Schimmel (09:45)
⁓ I forgot that.
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (10:01)
Outside ⁓ where the building was located there was a social gathering and Our doors were were not They weren't open to the public, but they weren't locked either So this gentleman was looking for the bathroom got lost walked in the middle of class now granted It's in the back of the room. So he really wasn't disruptive, but then he just stood there like just staring and it was kind of odd, right? I'm not kidding. It was kind of odd
Scott Schimmel (10:02)
Hmm.
Yeah.
haha
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (10:28)
And, uh, and I could see, and I wasn't teaching at the time. So I walked over and I'm like, can I help you? And he's like, this is amazing. And I'm like, and I, I I realized that he's a little bit drunk because it was a social event that was happening nearby. Come to find out he was a veteran and, and he was like, I missed this so much. He just sensed, he sensed it in the room. And, uh, man, I felt, I felt my heart drop. I'm like, dude, like, let's go, let's go in the hallway and talk. So we ended up talking to like.
Scott Schimmel (10:41)
Hahaha. ⁓
Yeah.
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (10:57)
20 minutes or so, ⁓ found the bathroom and then I got him back to his party or whatever. my gosh, like that, that was a, that sticks out of my head so much. Cause his face, ⁓ my gosh, he was, he talked about a sense of loss, a sense of identity, sense of belonging. He was clearly, clearly missing that. Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (11:09)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
⁓ I think there's also maybe the final one that's on my mind is the fear of not doing something truly meaningful, purposeful, ⁓ world influencing. And I'm sure there's a veteran or more that are listening to this and think, well, I didn't do anything that was world changing. However, you were a part of something that certainly is a part of a force for good, know, at least intended to be.
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (11:46)
Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (11:49)
And I've heard that over the years, like the loss of purpose and the fear of not just going to punch a clock somewhere and a cubicle and selling widgets like, and I know you, you navigated that in your own experience going through transition, but what have you seen in that regard?
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (12:03)
Yeah, there's, I mean, there's a lot of
veterans who are probably listening to the same. Well, that's my life right now. Like I can't wait to get out of the military because it's blah or it's met. May is like the new thing right now. Right. And meh. Um, I got it. Even in those conversations, which we've had numerous once removed from that environment, they missed the thing. And, and even the veteran that's listening to the other active duty person that's listening to this and say their job is just kind of feels mundane and boring.
Scott Schimmel (12:13)
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (12:33)
⁓ I could probably pull you aside and have a one-on-one and you would agree that, Hey, do you think you'd even miss the slightest sense of belonging to the knuckleheads to your left and right? Because it's just, it call it, it's almost like very like, like a family, know, if you had siblings and maybe there's that brotherly or sisterly love and you butted heads a couple of times. ⁓ you had to, had to, you know, maybe you were on bunk beds growing up or something like that. And it's sort of like intrusive.
Scott Schimmel (12:35)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (13:03)
That's a lot of the military. mean, your earlier years, it's very intrusive. have, especially on the ship where I was, gosh, we had 90 guys and one birthing with, you know, people sleeping up above you and they call them coffin lockers for a reason. Cause you feel confined and tiny little curtain to close for privacy. And you're like this for days at a time on deployment. So yes, I can see why people like, can't wait to get out of here. But then when you do and you get into the corporate world,
Scott Schimmel (13:04)
Thank you. ⁓
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (13:31)
where it almost feels like nobody cares, like nobody gives a damn, that really rips at you and you're like, man, I am missing that. It was ridiculous at times, ⁓ but dang, there's something about it, right? And ⁓ I think that's part of that fear that sets in later that they don't even realize. And maybe it even just sits in their heart.
Scott Schimmel (13:37)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Joe Lara | Vector Accelerator (13:58)
And they just keep going along doing their normal routine as a civilian and never even address it. ⁓ I think what we're finding too is veterans that are seeing the VA newsletter with vector accelerator advertised, those people are like 12 years, 15 years removed. And they're saying, where was this thing when I got out? Like, because it's, it's that whole issue and, and, those feelings are surfacing now. And they're like, my God, I had no idea. This is what I was missing. Yeah.
Scott Schimmel (14:06)
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I think a big part of our thesis and all of this is fear is normal. It's a part of transition. It makes sense. And if you don't recognize it, call it out, kind of place it, name it, very likely it'll distort how you see things and the choices that you make. And that's not good. And ⁓ certainly things might work out later, but we'd rather
help you work them out now. And so fear might lead you to making decisions for, you know, kind of lower level reasons, lower shelf reasons, just to survive, just to have security. But what we want for you is to better work through fear and let it sit at a place, the table, and maybe have a conversation or two, but then let it kind of turn it down because you might feel like you're losing your sense of identity, status, role, but you're going to find another one. You have a true identity.
You might feel like you're losing community. We're going to help you think through how to put together a new one. And you might feel like the great story of my life is behind me. We wouldn't say that. We'd say that the great story has yet to be written. And as you dig into this introspective work with others, you will discover your true identity. You will put together a new team, a sense of belonging, and you will get a new sense of purpose that can change the world. you know, play that again if you need to hear it every day.
⁓ Fear is a part of this, but let's not let it rule the day.
Bingo.
